The topic of next discussion post is something I’ve think about for awhile and actually had the idea from the Baseball’s Dream Team piece that CNSS did. I noticed last week that they did one for the NBA. Those bastards, they stole my idea that I copied it from them in the first place. We are going to try to put together 3 All – Time Teams, not only taking in consideration their stats or good each player was, but also thinking in what their bring to the team, what’s their strong facet, chemistry issues, if the legend wants to come from the bench, etc, etc. We are going to try to build a team ala “Colangelo – Coach K”, but with stars, no role players.
For this discussion post, we are going to make a little tweak to the rules; I’m trying to make the “discussion” a little less chaotic than the last one. There’s going to be subjects to discuss, instead of letting this subjects come to us, for example we are going to work with a list of 6 players per position, instead of thinking about this players on the spot. This gives us time for prepare our statements, and hopefully creating an more “readable” post.
I’m putting each list, discuss the list, assign a team and move to the next position. I’m including stats and rings, I’m not putting awards ‘cause we all know that’s very open to interpretation (Malone in 99?)
Rusty is going to select the Centers, the PFs. Yours truly is going to select the PGs, the SFs and the SGs
Centers:
Bill Russell (1957 – 1969)
15.1 PPG, 22.5 RPG, 4.3 APG, 42.3 MPG
11 Titles: 1957, 1959 – 1966, 1968, 1969
Wilt Chamberlain (1960-1973):
30.1 PPG, 22.9 RPG, 4.4 APG, 45.8 MPG, .540 FG%
2 Titles: 1967, 1972
Kareem Abdul Jabbar (1970 – 1989)
24.6 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 2.6 BPG, 3.6 APG, .559 FG%
6 Titles: 1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988
Hakeem Olajuwon (1985-2002):
21.8 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 3.1 BPG, .512 FG%
2 Titles: 1994, 1995
David Robinson (1990 – 2003):
21.1 PPG, 10.6 RPG, 3.0 BPG, .518 FG%
2 Titles: 1999, 2003
Shaquille O’Neal (1993 – Present)
25.9 PPG, 11.6 RPG. 2.5 BPG, .580 FG%
4 Titles: 2000- 02, 2006
Morgan: Rusty, it’s all yours.
Rusty: Thanks. We promised to look beyond the stats, and that is way I’m cutting Wilt from the first team, his career was filled with retiring treats and egomaniac stuff. Said that, I’m selecting Bill Russell as my starting center for the first Team.
Morgan: You can’t cut Wilt the Stilt. He’s the greatest scorer the game has seen. You supposed to look beyond the stats, but no ignored them
Rusty: He focused too much on stats, only 2 titles with the kind of stats!. Something was wrong
Morgan: Nothing was wrong. Russell and the Celtics were just too good. I do agree in your selecting of Russell as the starting center. For the backup I’ll say either Kareem or Hakeem.
Rusty: I agree half way, Russell doesn’t bring too much to the table offensively so we need somebody who can score and can dominate inside. Every player on that list can do that, but I feel Kareem is the more versatile.
Morgan: Hakeem would need fewer touches
Rusty: So? Are touches an issue?
Morgan: I’m just saying, we need to think about it
Rusty: Ok, you are right. We should stay away of players like McHale or
Morgan: Fine, fine. Second team?
Rusty: Hakeem First. Wilt Second
Morgan: Do you think Chamberlain is going to agree to come from the bench?
Rusty: If he doesn’t like it, he can walk. We have Hakeem waiting on the sidelines.
Morgan: It would kill you give him the starting notch?
Rusty: Fine. I’m starting Wilt. But I’m changing Hakeem for Shaq. I like the idea of those two together
Morgan: Me too. I think is easier talking Shaq into accept a backup role than Wilt. Dream starting for the 3rd team?
Rusty: Yes, sir.
Point Guards
Bob Cousy (1951 – 1963, 1970)
18.4 PPG, 7.5 APG, 5.7 RPG
6 Titles: 1957, 1959 – 1963
Oscar Robertson (1961- 1974)
25.7 PPG, 9.5 APG, 7.5 APG, 42.2 MPG, .485 FG%, .838 FT%
1 Title: 1971
Walt Frazier (1968 – 1980)
18.9 PPG, 6.1 APG, 5.9 RPG, 37.5 MPG
2 Titles: 1970, 1973
Magic Johnson (1980 – 1991, 1996)
19.5 PPG, 11.2 APG, 7.2 RPG, .520 FG%, .848 FT%
5 Titles: 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988
John Stockton (1985 -2003)
13.1 PPG, 10.5 APG, 2.2 spg, .515 FG%, .826 FT%
0 Titles
Jason Kidd (1995 – Present)
14.5 PPG, 9.2 APG, 6.7 RPG, 2.0 spg, 37.4 MPG,
0 titles
Note: I’m leaving Isaiah out of this list, ‘cause there’s a little too much controversy with this guy, he couldn’t play with MJ, Stockton, Malone,
Morgan: Magic Johnson, there’s nothing to say here against this guy. He’s one of the best all time, no matter position, time or dimension. For the backup of the first team I’m selecting John Stockton: He’s a quiet guy and highly effective player. Perfect for a backup rule
Rusty: Congrats for an easy selection, Morgan. But you dropped the ball with the backup; Oscar Robertson is perhaps the most complete point guard of all time. I love John Stockton, he was a great shooter and a brilliant player, but Robertson is in a higher level.
Morgan: We need shooters
Rusty: Magic was a decent shooter. We know Michael Jordan and Larry Bird are going to be in the first team, there are enough shooters.
Morgan: Big O was as complete as a player can get, but also Magic. Besides,
Rusty: He had better number defensively, remember you rule Morgan: look beyond the numbers.
Morgan: Point Taken. I’m switching to Big O as the 1st team backup. For the second team, now I’m giving John Stockton the start and give me Walt Frazier to be the backup
Rusty: If I were you, I would switch that. Frazier was an unbelievable defender,
Morgan: In the second team we have Shaq and Wilt to open the court We need shooters more the scorers
Rusty: You and your shooters. I’ll let you have this one, besides we are arguing about playing time. Let the coach worry about that.
Morgan: Another victory for me! For the 3rd team, I’m starting Kidd, using Cousy as a backup. I know very little about Cousy, but for what I can see Kidd is more complete
Rusty: You are right, no matter how much we get to know about Bob Cousy, Jason Kidd ranks as one of the most complete point guards up there with Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson.
Power Forwards
Bob Petit (1955 – 1965)
26.4 PPG, 16.2 RPG, 38.8 MPG
1 Title: 1958
Kevin McHale (1981 -1993)
17.9 PPG, 7.3 RPG, .554 FG%
3 Titles: 1981, 1984, 1986
Charles Barkley (1985 – 2000)
22.1 PPG, 11.7 RPG, 3.9 APG, .541 FG%
0 Titles
Karl Malone (1986 -2004)
25.0 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 3.6 APG, 37.2 MPG, .516 FG%
0 Titles
Kevin Garnett (1996 – Present)
20.5 PPG, 11.4 RPG, 4.5 APG, 38.3 MPG
0 Titles
Tim Duncan (1998 - Present)
21.8 PPG, 11.9 RPG, 2.5 BPG, 37.5 MPG
4 Titles: 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007
Rusty: Tim Duncan, right now he’s at his prime, he still have 2 to 3 years left playing at this level. His accolades will only increase with time. He’s the Bill Russell of this generation with a bigger offensive repertoire. He will be perfect playing alongside Russell. For the backup, I’m a little torn between Malone’s offensive prowess and Garnett versatility.
Morgan:
Rusty: Garnett sounds like the logical choice, but I don’t feel he deserved it, not yet.
Morgan: What’s that have to do with anything?
Rusty: This are the all time teams, right?
Morgan: Yeah, so?
Rusty: We are talking about legends here. I still feel that KG needs to prove he can win, at least one Finals appearance
Morgan: Whatever, man. It’s your choice…
Rusty: We need a “bodyguard”, we need a tough guy. Malone it is
Morgan: Are you calling KG weak?
Rusty: Don’t drag this, Morgan. To answer your question: Yes, I am. Starting for the second team I’m picking Charles Barkley and Garnett as his backup. With Chamberlain and Shaquille already selected I think Barkley’s size wouldn’t be a problem. Besides, outside Wilt and Russell he’s the better rebounder on the list.
Morgan: I like those picks. I’m guessing Pettit to start for the 3rd team and McHale as a backup
Rusty: Again, you are right, sir.
Small Forwards
27.4 PPG, 13.5 RPG, 40,0 MPG
0 Titles
John Havlicek (1963 - 1978)
20.8 PPG, 6.3 RPG, .815 FT%
8 Titles: 1962 – 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976
Rick Barry NBA: (1966, 1967, 1973 – 1980)
24.8 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 2.0 spg, 37.4 MPG, .893 FT%
1
1 NBA Title: 1975
Larry Bird (1980 – 1992)
24.3 PPG, 10.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, 38.4 MPG, .376 3P%, .886 FT%, .496 FG%
3 Titles: 1981, 1984, 1986
James Worthy (1983 – 1994)
17.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG, .521 FG%
3 Titles: 1985, 1987, 1988
Scottie Pippen (1988 – 2004)
16.1 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 5.2 APG, 2.0 spg
6 Titles: 1991-1993, 1996-1998
Morgan: The only easy part of this position is selecting Larry Bird as the starting small forward for the 1st team, after that it’s all fucked up! This has to be one the hardest positions to choose. Every player is so versatile, so we have to choose between a defensive specialist and an offensive machine. I’m leaning towards Rick Barry but I feel I’m missing something in letting go a defensive player like Havlicek or Pippen.
Rusty: Nice list indeed. If you look the players selected so far for the first team we still don’t have a perimeter defender and neither of those big guys can go outside and defend a wing player. I would select either Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek.
Morgan: Rick Barry is perhaps the second best small forward after Larry Bird. He was an impressive scorer and pretty good ball handler; he was the first “point – forward”.
Rusty: Ball Movement is a good issue to address here. The shooting guard is going to be a scorer and this team needs another player, besides the point guards, that moves the ball around and outside – inside. Duncan and Malone are great passers out of double team; it will be nice to having somebody to make that extra pass, besides the selected Bird.
Morgan: We know MJ is going to be in this team. We also have Malone, Kareem and Bird; I think we have the offense well covered. So, as hard as this is because I think Barry is the best small forward remaining, I’m selecting my personal favorite Scottie Pippen as Bird’s backup.
The second team is getting almost the same quality at small forward as the first team: Barry as the starter and Havlicek coming from the bench
Rusty: So, you selected Pippen instead of John Havlicek because of personal favoritisms?
Morgan: Yeap
Rusty: How unprofessional!
Morgan: I’m a blogger, pay me. Although I’ll still select Scottie, I’ll give you some “professional” reasons. Do you like the selections for the second team?
Rusty: No, I don’t like them. I think this team isn’t as strong offensively as the first one so, I would select Baylor as the backup. As I told you “off-camera”, Baylor for me was a power forward, I know you did your homework and found reasons to put him in the small forward list. But seeing the “roster” for the 2nd team Baylor matches here like a charm. The backup power forward is Kevin Garnett and he can easily move to the 3 and Baylor to the 4 is the situation requires the transition.
Morgan: Damn you, Rusty. Ok, the second team’s small forwards are Rick Barry and Elgin Baylor
Rusy: Thata boy!
Morgan: So, I finally get to select Havlicek. I’m not sure where to put him, because I get the feeling the third team is going to be running up and down, so I might get tempted to start James Worthy, but Havlicek’s talent tell me to start him
Rusty: You are right in one thing, that team is going to run. You know the style of play of a team is set to the quality of the point guards. Cousy and Kidd would not work in a half court scheme. Robinson and Olajuwon could run the floor with these guys and Pettit was a skinny guy who would be happy running the floor, I don’t see any problem with this team running. But, you still need some serious offense and Havlicek was a better offensive player than Worthy, and a better defensive player. Don’t get confuse here, Morgan. You are not going to select Shawn Marion over Larry Bird just because of a fast paced scheme
Morgan: You are right, I’m very sorry; I’ll go back to my hole now. Damn it, whose selection was it? I feel robbed
Rusty: Make smarter selections and I won’t correct them
Jerry West (1961 – 1974)
27.0 PPG, 6.7 APG, 2.7 spg, 39.2 MPG
1 Title: 1972
Julius Erving
24.2 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 2.0 SPG, 1.7 BPG, .506 FG%
2
1 NBA Title: 1983
George Gervin
25.1 PPG, 5.3 RPG, .504 FG%, .841FT%
0 Titles
20.4 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 5.6 APG, 2.0 spg
1 Title: 1995
Michael Jordan (1985 – 1993, 1995 – 1998, 2002, 2003)
30.1 PPG, 6.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 2,3 spg, .497 FG%, .835 FT%
6 Titles: 1991-1993, 1996-1998
24.6 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 36.2 MPG, .838 FT%
3 Titles: 2000 - 2002
Morgan: Reinvidication time. Easiest selection of the entire post; starting for the 1st All Time Team, His Airness, Michael Jordan. I really don’t have to say nothing about this guy, we all know he belongs here. I would love to have a 3 point shooter as his backup, but the only one is
Rusty: I agree with Kobe Bryant, besides the 1st team may have enough problems sharing the ball with Kareem and Karl Malone in the second unit. I would love to see either Jerry West or Clyde Drexler lacing them up for this team.
Morgan: The Glyde is very similar to Scottie and Big O who are already in the second unit, I know he can play in the first unit following the coach’s wishes and the balance would be uncompromised. But, Dr J won at every level, he could score over 5 defenders making it look easy, he’s a “less dramatic, more focused” version of
Rusty: Not a shooter, Bryant can be a shooter, so Jerry West and Clyde Drexler
Morgan: Hmm…you are right about Jerry West, he was a great passer and even a greater scorer and I think he was a better shooter than Dr J (couldn’t find anything that proves me wrong).
Rusty: I don’t know neither is Jerry West was a good shooter; I do know that Erving didn’t have much of a “shooters touch”
Morgan: Mr. Clutch, welcome to the 1st All Time team.
For the second team I’m picking Dr J as the starter, so far the real only scorer on the wing is Barry, both KG and Baylor are not typical wing players. Besides, along with Frazier and
Rusty: Garnett and Baylor are not wing players at all. I like the selection. Bench?
Morgan: The Glyde; versatile, good defender, good shooter, great scorer. You can’t loose bringing a guy like that from the bench. In the 3rd team I’m putting
Rusty: I suspected that. I was reading about Gerving in anticipation of that post of your. You said that Julius Erving was a better version that Bryant, I think George Gerving was the better version of Kobe, I know you didn’t use those exact words but that point remains. I don’t like the player Kobe Bryant has become, although I know the reason why you put him in the list, he is a great scorer, can be a great defender and once he matures he will become a greater player and a true leader, just watch the evolution of Tracy McGrady, that’s something I hope it happens to Mr. Bryant.
My point is Gerving is far better that Bryant, if we are putting them in the same team, let’s do the right thing and give credit where credit is due.
Morgan: Wow. A Kobe Hater in da house. Seriously, I understand what are you saying about
Rusty: No, but this team is not filled with defensive stalwarts, you can only count Olajuwon and David Robinson as great defenders, it’s too late to worried about perimeter defense now.
Morgan: “too late to worried about perimeter defense now “. Who are you? Don Nelson?.
Rusty: The day hasn’t finished.
Morgan: I know we are arguing for who takes the starting spot, they both will play for the 3rd team, but for
Rusty: That’s precisely why he should be benched
Morgan: You have something against
Rusty: I made my point about Bryant; I feel George Gervin should start for this team. It is your selection, Morgan, make the call
Morgan:
There your have it, 3 teams, 30 players. Once again, let me remind your guys we weren’t trying the team with the biggest names, although everybody is a big name, we considered things like chemistry, team balance between offense and defense, versatility, etc.
About the list, in case you were wondering, I just pick 6 of the best players in each position; I had some tough omissions like Moses Malone, Tiny Archibald and Elvin Hayes. The division between power forward and small forward was kinda hard, ‘cause in the old days it was no distinction between this positions. I hoped you guys and girls liked, it was way more fun than the Spurs discussion, drop a comment, criticize us, admire us, if you are hot girl, send me a picture.
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